Tools to Bolster Your Mental Health & Confidence | Dr. Paul Conti | Edited Transcript

A professionally copyedited transcript of Andrew Huberman's conversation: Tools to Bolster Your Mental Health & Confidence | Dr. Paul Conti.

This is a professionally copyedited transcript of Tools to Bolster Your Mental Health & Confidence | Dr. Paul Conti. It has been edited for readability and lightly formatted while preserving the substance of the discussion.

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Full video:

Dr. Paul Conti, MD, is a board-certified psychiatrist and an expert in how to improve mental health and increase your sense of agency and wellbeing. He is also an expert in trauma treatment. We discuss practical tools you can use to gain insight into your natural strengths and to make better life choices on your own behalf. We explore how these tools can help overcome low motivation, intrusive thoughts and self-destructive bad habits. We also discuss how to balance internal reflection and external action to ensure you move your life forward in the right directions.

Episode Guide

• 00:00:00 Paul Conti

• 00:02:51 Self View; Tool: What’s Going Right?; State Dependence

• 00:10:03 Sponsors: Helix Sleep & BetterHelp

• 00:12:44 Tool: Compassionate Curiosity; Falseness; Social Media

• 00:21:00 Doing vs Thinking; Self-Reflection

• 00:29:55 External vs Internal Processing, Balance

• 00:40:42 Sponsor: AG1

• 00:42:26 Quiet vs Verbal; Questions to Learn About Self

• 00:53:17 Examined Life & Reflection; Changing Unwanted Behavior

• 01:02:54 Making Positive Changes, Problem Solving

• 01:07:26 Sponsor: Function

• 01:09:03 Behavior Pattern Insight & Reclaiming Agency

• 01:17:06 Agency & Control; Getting in Your Own Way

• 01:22:49 Trauma, Living Intentionally; Internal Turmoil

• 01:29:08 Intrusive Thoughts, Tool: Self Talk Awareness; Dreams

• 01:34:10 Sponsor: Rorra

• 01:35:23 Trauma & Emotions; Healing Childhood Trauma

• 01:43:32 Photographs, Positive Climate for the Mind; Spirituality, Good & Evil

• 01:52:53 Happiness & Expectations; Death, Living a Good Life

• 02:03:10 Book Writing; Acknowledgements

• 02:07:25 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow, Reviews & Feedback, Sponsors, Protocols Book, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter

Transcript

00:02-04:20

Andrew Huberman: There’s actually way more going right in all of us than going wrong—if you’re here, if you’re listening to educational material, if you want to better yourself. It’s important to start with that mindset because it helps us look at what’s not going the way we want and where we want to bring change. But we have to start from a place of strength.

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we talk about science and science-based tools for everyday life. I’m Andrew Huberman, a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

Today, my guest is Dr. Paul Conti. He’s a medical doctor and psychiatrist specializing in trauma recovery, and one of the leading public educators on building agency, confidence, and well-being in your life. We’ll talk about practical ways to build and maintain mental health, especially focusing on identifying your natural strengths and those often unseen chances to improve how you think and relate to yourself and others.

Dr. Conti’s approach to mental health is very different from most of what you’ll find online. He draws deeply on clinical experience and data to guide us through important questions—especially when facing challenges like low motivation, mood issues, or breaking bad habits.

Today, we’ll cover all that, plus how to balance taking action with introspection. This balance is key because mental health isn’t just about thinking things through—it’s often about doing more than thinking.

Throughout the episode, you’ll get specific questions and action steps to ask yourself daily or weekly to become your best self and find true meaning along the way.

Also, Dr. Conti has a new book coming out called *What’s Going Right*. It’s a powerful, practical method for optimizing your mental health. I’ve read it all the way through, and it’s a fantastic resource packed with straightforward prompts to help anyone push through sticking points and build on what’s already going right in their life. So whether you’re struggling or just want to take your mental health to the next level, this is the conversation for you.

Just a quick note: this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It’s part of my effort to bring free, accessible, science-based tools to the public. In keeping with that, we do have sponsors in today’s episode.

Now, let’s begin our talk with Dr. Paul Conti. Dr. Conti, welcome back.

Paul Conti: Thank you. It’s great to be here again.

Andrew Huberman: Congrats on your book *What’s Going Right*. It really is a powerful guide for optimizing mental health. You also hold the record, by the way, for the most viewed and downloaded episode of this podcast—so there’s definitely a lot of listeners eager to hear from you again.

Paul Conti: Wow, that’s amazing.

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, definitely a lot of fans out there. So, let’s start by talking about individuals. Then I’d also like to get into how people interact, which I don’t think we’ve gotten into much on this podcast before.

We all have a self, right? We wake up with a sense of who we are, what excites us, what bothers us. The question I’ve been living with for a long time is: how malleable is our self-view? How flexible is that relationship with ourselves?

Paul Conti: I think it’s very malleable. There’s a lot of flexibility. But the key is that we have to be willing to look at ourselves. Often, we’re not. We’re afraid of what we might find...

04:19-08:12

Dr. Paul Conti: A lot of times we avoid looking at ourselves because we’re afraid of what we’ll find. Or we don’t know how to understand ourselves or how to make changes, so we just avoid the whole thing. Because of that, we might see ourselves as rigid, stuck in the same place over time. But if we’re willing to look with compassionate curiosity—asking ourselves, “What can I learn about myself?” or “What might I want to change or emphasize?”—we can actually create a lot of change.

The title of your book, *What’s Going Right,* is a great lens to start with when we examine ourselves. Looking at what’s working—things like having ten fingers and ten toes, or areas where we feel some control—gives us a solid place to begin.

I think starting with what’s going right isn’t just about feeling better; it’s about aligning with reality. There’s so much more working for all of us than going wrong. After all, if we’re here listening and wanting to improve, there’s a lot of good happening inside us. That perspective helps us then look at what’s not working and where we want to make changes, but starting from a place of strength is crucial.

Unfortunately, the mental health system often pushes us to focus on what’s wrong. We get labeled in ways that can make us feel worse, helpless, or hopeless. But if we start with what’s going right and bring curiosity to ourselves, there are real processes we can follow to understand ourselves better and genuinely change.

Some good starting points are paying attention to your self-talk. What do you say to yourself in those quiet moments, when no one else is listening? Often, we’re saying things that are negative or critical without realizing it, and just being aware of that is a useful strategy.

Another is reflecting on the life story you tell about yourself—both to yourself and others. What do you habitually say about who you are? Does that narrative truly match what’s real and true about your life?

There are two foundational pillars of self that everyone has, because we’re all human with a human brain and mind. We recently explored this idea in a 2023 series, which helped me really clarify that there’s a structure and function of self common to us all. These pillars are where we can look to better understand ourselves and bring about better mental health.

If we know where and how to look, and if we’re willing to face what we find without fear—and if we believe in our ability to change—then we can build flexibility and malleability within ourselves. Approaching ourselves with hope, knowing that if we do this work, we truly can make things better, offers a grounded, realistic optimism that’s so important.

08:12-08:33

Andrew Huberman: I’ve got a question that might seem like it’s coming from left field, but I promise it ties back to what we’re discussing. Based on your experience in psychiatry and your work with patients—and from your own life—do you think there’s a lot of variation, or very little, in how much people’s states influence or determine their behavior? I’m talking about state dependence here.

08:36-09:02

Dr. Paul Conti: You know, some people seem so affiliative that when they’re with others, they think and feel completely differently than when they’re alone. And it’s not necessarily about being extroverted. When they’re by themselves, their internal state changes so much, it’s almost like living two separate lives.

09:02-09:32

Dr. Paul Conti: I’m asking this because I’m curious about how state dependence influences the way we think and feel—how we see the world and ourselves. For most people, life moves fast, and the stress piles up. We end up rushing just to keep up with ourselves. When that happens, we become very state-dependent instead of stepping back and observing ourselves—to notice, “Okay, I’m here; this is what I’m doing, who I’m with, how I’m feeling, how I’m behaving.” Being able to observe ourselves is how we create a coherent sense of self across different situations. We recognize that we act differently in different contexts.

09:32-10:01

Dr. Paul Conti: Some of our behavior and sense of self are state-dependent, but there’s a part of us that stands above all of that—an observing self that connects everything. Sometimes this is called the “observing ego.” It allows us to be both state-dependent and have a true, consistent self across all those states.

10:03-11:18

Andrew Huberman: Let me take a quick moment to thank our sponsor, Helix Sleep. They make mattresses and pillows tailored to your unique sleep needs. I’ve mentioned before how crucial great sleep is for mental health, physical health, and overall performance. When we don’t get enough quality sleep regularly, everything suffers. But when we do, all aspects of our wellbeing improve dramatically. The mattress you sleep on plays a huge role in how well you sleep each night—whether it’s soft or firm needs to fit your individual preferences.

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If you want to try Helix, go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that quick quiz, and get matched to your perfect mattress. Right now, they’re offering up to 27% off the entire site. Plus, Helix has teamed up with TrueMed, so you can use your HSA or FSA dollars to purchase their award-winning mattresses. Again, that’s helixsleep.com/huberman for up to 27% off.

11:18-12:38

Andrew Huberman: Today’s episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp, which offers professional therapy with licensed therapists entirely online. I’ve been doing therapy for a long time, and I’ll tell you, it’s a lot like working out. Sometimes you want to do it, sometimes you don’t, but every session I finish leaves me feeling better—with specific, actionable insights I hadn’t thought of before. When I apply those, it improves various parts of my life.

Research shows there are so many benefits from effective therapy. What makes therapy effective is having a good connection with your therapist, gaining insights together, and walking away with tools you can use outside of sessions. BetterHelp makes it easy to find expert therapists who can provide those benefits. They have a quick questionnaire to match you to a therapist, and if you’re not happy with your match, you can switch therapists anytime.

If you want to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month.

12:44-14:34

Dr. Paul Conti: When someone sits down to think about their strengths or their self-talk, or even just to consider who they really are and what they want to change—or not change, what they want to build on—when’s the best time to do that? Honestly, all you really need is curiosity. That’s it. And curiosity doesn’t have to be intense or overly serious or heavy—it can be light and playful. There are so many things we’re curious about, so many things we want to learn. It’s great for our brain and overall health to stay curious and keep learning.

But what people often leave out is this: being curious about themselves. That can actually be a very lively, energizing thing to do—asking, “What runs through everything I do? Why do I feel so different doing one thing versus another? What are the common threads running through my life?” This is a brilliant way to explore what’s working in us, what makes us tick, and what keeps us happy.

From there, it’s easier to spot situations where we might not be doing so well or where we aren’t as happy. We can then think about those moments without fear. Curiosity about ourselves—what runs through everything we do, how we differ across situations—can lead us to real answers about what makes us happy and when we’re being true to ourselves. It can help us recognize when we’re presenting a false self, even one we know isn’t authentic.

So, curiosity is the one essential ingredient. Then, you can approach this with as much seriousness or lightness as you want, alone or with someone else. Curiosity can take you far.

14:34-16:50

Andrew Huberman: It’s interesting you bring up true self versus false self. I think the more state-dependent we are, the more confusing that gets. Especially nowadays, it feels like there’s at least a partial erosion of etiquette—not that people should get more rigid, but when I was growing up, people seemed to dress and act differently depending on the context. There was a clearer separation between different aspects of yourself depending on the setting.

Now, with all the information flooding us from everywhere—social media, smartphones, and so forth—people share all parts of their lives constantly. Even folks who weren’t traditionally public about their lives, like old classmates, are posting pictures of their kids, meals, wins, losses. It’s a really odd thing when you think about it, because we evolved spending time experiencing ourselves separately from all the other things people were doing.

In your clinical work, are you seeing more people struggle to separate different parts of themselves or their lives because of this constant influx and sharing of information? Maybe even putting that out into the world blurs those lines?

Dr. Paul Conti: It really depends on the individual and how they use that information. If we’re talking about a false self, some people are actively engaging in presenting an image they know isn’t real. Like, wanting everyone to see only the best parts of their life, to look like they’re doing really well—perhaps even to hide something. So, there’s definitely a place for curiosity about that falseness: What am I trying to protect? Why do I want others to see me in a way that doesn’t match my actual life, especially if my life has stressors or challenges that aren’t glamorous?

That’s one way to use these resources. Another way can be...

16:53-18:23

Dr. Paul Conti: Another way to connect is by engaging in ways that feel more authentic to ourselves. For example, someone might have a passion or interest where it’s hard to find like-minded people nearby, but they can connect with others who share that passion more distantly—maybe through social media. Or people who are especially sensitive and compassionate about difficult issues in the world can find kindred spirits through online communities.

So, really, anything can be used well or misused. We can use these tools to get closer to ourselves, building a stronger sense of who we are. Or, we can use them as a distraction from ourselves, looking for comfort or validation somewhere outside us because we’re avoiding something inside.

The important thing is to always be honest with ourselves with a spirit of compassionate curiosity, not harsh judgment. That way, when we look inward, we aren’t angry at ourselves asking, “What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I do this better? Why don’t people like me more?” Instead, we approach ourselves with kindness.

There are ways to guide ourselves away from that honesty and truth, but if we look honestly, we don’t have to be afraid of what we find. Maybe if we’re worried people don’t like us, it’s a sign we’re hanging out with an unhealthy crowd. Or maybe it’s something about ourselves we need to change if that thought keeps coming up.

So honesty plus curiosity — without fear or harshness — is key. We shouldn’t be so negative toward ourselves that we hide from what might actually help us feel more connected and whole.

I’m not trying to demonize social media, but humanity has entered a strange new phase. If someone is sitting alone today, their experience is very different from 30 years ago — most likely, they’re flooded with information about what other people are doing. That can be good or interesting, but it changes the nature of being alone.

18:23-20:02

Dr. Paul Conti: When we see something else or think about sharing what we’re doing online, it alters the experience — it’s no longer truly alone time. Even if you post to just one person or millions, it externalizes something that used to be private and internal: our thoughts and emotions.

Processing time alone has become something very different now.

20:02-21:11

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, that makes sense. There’s definitely a sweet spot for feeling connected to others. We know that too little connection—too much isolation—is harmful. But the modern world tends to flood us with so much connection that it’s the opposite problem: we don’t get enough solitude.

When we’re constantly attached, it becomes harder to figure out what we really like or how we feel about things because we’re looking for cues outside ourselves.

So, the key is balancing some external check-ins—how do the people I trust feel, how do people similar or different from me feel?—with enough alone time so that I’m reflecting on my own life and questions before seeking input or validation externally.

I’d bet a lot of people find the process of being alone and introspective pretty anxiety-provoking. There’s even been some funny exchanges online recently about that.

21:13-21:44

Dr. Paul Conti: There was this semi-comedic exchange online recently because, actually, our mutual friend David Senra—he has a podcast with this very podcast production company—he sat down with Marc Andreessen. You know, the Netscape founder and a16z investor. Marc made a pretty provocative statement, saying that great men throughout history didn’t just sit around thinking about their thoughts. Knowing Marc, who’s a friend of mine, I think he was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. I believe he was trying to point out that too much thinking without enough action can be self-destructive.

21:44-22:08

Dr. Paul Conti: As usual, the media ran with it, and in true Andreessen fashion, he doubled and tripled down on that message. It was actually fun for a while because it sparked a conversation about the balance between introspection and doing. I think what he contributed with those provocative comments was a useful prompt to think about how much thinking versus doing is healthy when exploring yourself. You don’t want to spiral into a mental tunnel you can’t escape, but you also want to make sure you’re putting things out in the world.

22:08-22:53

Dr. Paul Conti: So, when you have someone who’s not clinically depressed but just struggling a bit—no urgent clinical issues—how much do you encourage them to explore themselves through action versus thinking about their thoughts? It really depends on who they are and where they need to break new ground in self-understanding. You brought up a good point that for many people, just being with themselves can provoke anxiety. I think that’s unfortunate and largely due to a lack of leadership in mental health, as well as the stigma and fear around it. We’re afraid of what we don’t understand, and ironically, what we don’t understand most is ourselves. So being alone with your thoughts can trigger anxiety.

22:53-23:41

Dr. Paul Conti: But I believe there are ways to be with yourself that don’t have to be scary. You can approach it with a mindset of curiosity, like, “Hey, this will be interesting—I wonder what I’ll find.” And the reflection, thoughts, and learning that come out of that can guide you to the right balance for you. Some people are very assertive; they want to do a lot in the world but still need some reflection. Others are more reflective and tend to do less. We have to understand what profile works for each person. It’s not one-size-fits-all.

23:41-24:42

Dr. Paul Conti: If you’re well-balanced—asserting yourself in the world at a level that works for you and finding pleasure in healthy ways—you’re likely in a good place. But too much doing and not enough reflection won’t get you far. You’ll hit diminishing returns, start feeling unsatisfied because you’re doing a lot but not really enjoying it. On the other hand, if you’re doing too little, you might feel idle or even fall into learned helplessness. So it’s about finding the optimal zone where you’re asserting yourself and finding gratification in what you do. If that’s happening, you’ll see a happy, balanced person. If not, you can start figuring out what’s going on internally—maybe the unconscious mind is driving too much doing without reflection, or vice versa.

24:42-25:06

Dr. Paul Conti: By looking carefully at the person and their habits, you can figure out what serves them best and how to adjust from where they are now to get there.

25:06-25:13

Andrew Huberman: Is it true that some people just don’t really think about their thinking that much? Like, they just go out and do stuff? I’ve had friends say that—I don’t...

25:15-29:15

Dr. Paul Conti: I don’t want to speak for myself here—I want to speak for others. Many people, they don’t really think about their thinking. They just get up in the morning, brush their teeth, use the bathroom, and go about their day without much introspection. They’re not necessarily called to reflect on their thoughts. Sometimes it’s because they’re extremely busy, and that might be one reason. But sometimes, for whatever reason, that kind of self-reflection just doesn’t really occur to them.

They’re busy doing things, observing, and seem functional. So the question is, are they missing out on something fundamental? Or maybe, is that even the goal? I ask this partly from a personal point of view—growing up, I often thought how great it would be to just go through life doing stuff without overthinking things, without dwelling on the past too much, just getting things done. I’m a get-it-done kind of person. But like most people, sometimes I do find myself reflecting on my thinking, whether I want to or not.

When I say “forced,” I mean it just happens naturally. I’ll catch myself reflecting and trying to generalize what it’s about, because this isn’t about me specifically. Usually these reflections come from wondering if something’s worth exploring or if there’s a problem with the way I’m thinking or doing things—or even if there’s a problem with how other people are thinking and acting. It boils down to this us-versus-them way of thinking—some reflections are positive, some negative.

I’ll confess, I don’t often sit around thinking about everything going right, though I know I should. I do have a gratitude practice, but I generally don’t spend time noticing simple things like, “The walls are up, the ceiling’s intact, I’m fed and healthy.” Of course, when something bad happens, that’s when people tend to take stock. But what I wonder is if there’s a spectrum when it comes to reflexive self-exploration. People have different capacities and interests in reflecting on their lives.

Some people have more of it, and that might serve them well in becoming more self-aware, but others have less of that reflective tendency and might be more naturally generative—they just keep moving forward. So even though naturally, some of us reflect more than others, the question is: Are we happy? Is life going well? If someone is healthy, mentally sound, has secure relationships, life is going well, but they’re not reflecting much, that might not be a bad place to be.

I’d describe that as living through a generative drive — being productive and contributing to the world, making things better, learning and growing, and just moving forward. That’s a great way for most people to live. But getting there usually involves some reflection along the way. Sometimes that reflection isn’t planned—it just comes up, like “Hey, maybe I should think about this situation, what others are thinking, and how that affects me.” Your brain leads you to those moments because it knows reflection helps make better decisions.

But if you’re moving too fast or are defending yourself against reflection, then you’re not being reflective, and that’s not good. For example, someone who’s always busy might not have time to reflect. The big question is: Is that person happy? If they’re not happy, complaining, working hard but not feeling rewarded, then not reflecting isn’t helping them—it’s actually blocking their growth. Everyone lives somewhere on the spectrum of reflection, and it varies from person to person.

29:12-29:57

Dr. Paul Conti: Whether it’s our ability to reflect, assert ourselves, or experience pleasure, what really matters is how we’re functioning and if it’s healthy for us. Everyone is unique, so we have to pause and check in with ourselves—ask, “How’s this going for me? Am I functioning well? Is this working?” Am I taking enough time to think? Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe I’m unsure. But if I’m not happy, I need to revisit that question. This kind of self-curiosity helps us explore how we’re wired to function. Are we living in a way that truly works for us? If not, why? What can we change? It’s about using our awareness and thought process to improve our lives.

29:57-31:37

Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): I know these aren’t clinical terms, but someone recently described themselves as an external processor—they need to talk things out to understand what’s going on and to make decisions. This implies that others might be internal processors, who work things out by thinking internally—sitting with their thoughts, walking, or driving while reflecting. Do you see people fall into those categories? Are some people better at processing internally, while others do better by verbalizing their thoughts to someone else?

Dr. Paul Conti: I don’t think they’re strict categories, but the ability to think objectively varies from person to person. Often, we get stuck in our own heads, thinking but not productively—going in loops. Taking thoughts outside ourselves—writing them down or saying them out loud—activates different brain processes. It brings an extra layer of error checking. Some folks can process thoroughly inside their heads, asking themselves, “Is there a new way to look at this?” But often, we get trapped in our own thinking. Speaking or writing our thoughts holds the brain more accountable. That’s why sometimes I’ll say something out loud or share it with someone else and say, “Oh, I figured it out,” or “Thanks for helping me see this.” And sometimes all that other person did was listen. Just by being there and hearing you, you do more internal processing. It requires more mental work but helps clarify things.

31:37-33:08

Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): I find this idea fascinating—people differ in how they work through things internally before bringing a version of themselves into the world that’s been vetted. I appreciate that approach, but I also realize it doesn’t always work out perfectly. For example, I had a chat with my sister this morning. We’re close, no friction, but we were heading in different directions in the conversation. We pushed back a bit, that brother-sister dynamic, until we realized we weren’t aligned. Eventually, we found common ground—the overlap in our Venn diagram—and that brought clarity to something important. I thought, “How cool is that?” She has her way of doing things, I have mine, but I don’t think I could have reached that clarity without the conversation.

33:10-34:00

Dr. Paul Conti: That conversation... And yet, for two-thirds of it—I won’t say her name for privacy—but for two-thirds of it, I was thinking, “Oh god, this is already a difficult thing, made even harder by this other picture she’s showing me, and the different version of it she brings.” But then, boom, you hit this convergence. And that’s real synergy. Honestly, I couldn’t have come up with that on my own. So while I value internal processing, I know for sure I couldn’t have gotten there without actually feeling and meeting the friction she brought forward—her willingness to bend a little, and my willingness to accept a bit. Because you’re doing something together, something real and open. You have to be able to say, “This is how I think and feel,” put that out there, test it, bounce it off the other person, and take in what they think and say. It’s a really complicated process—that’s how human beings come to understand one another or agree, or at least find a way forward, even if there isn’t complete agreement.

34:00-35:10

Dr. Paul Conti: We often have to do these things outside ourselves if we want to be at our healthiest, but it’s good to be able to do some inside ourselves, too. That’s a good place to start—we can do that alone, with ourselves. We’re talking about reflective capacity and inclination, but none of us knows how to do something we haven’t been taught. Often, we haven’t learned how to go inside and say, “Okay, I’m going to think about myself, and I want to do it productively.” Part of what I’m trying to highlight is that there are ways of being with yourself, thinking about yourself, that can lead to progress or sometimes answers. If we can do that, we could probably all do it more. And if we’re given a way to do it that feels right—”Okay, this works for me, I’m actually learning about myself as I do this”—we bring a vetted self, our best self, to whatever we find outside of us. That might be collaborating with another person, coming to some middle ground even without full agreement.

35:10-36:00

Dr. Paul Conti: So if we start with ourselves, if we reflect and bring self-understanding forward, we’re much stronger—not in a forceful way, but stronger in terms of self-knowledge and flexibility when we meet others in the real world. Yeah, to me, the idea of internal processing... maybe it’s because I’ve seen too many movies and shows growing up, but the picture I have is that people who process internally bring the best version of themselves forward. They don’t burden others. But I think culturally now, we understand that this person—while traditionally revered, and it’s kind of a male-centric idea—is maybe a bit disconnected from the chatter around them.

36:00-37:10

Dr. Paul Conti: And I have this belief that if people are externally processing a lot, they’re also revealing their uncertainty—and that’s not usually seen as a good thing to reveal to the world. This probably reflects my age and the culture I grew up in, but generally, we don’t talk about the “strong silent type” being lazy. [laughs] We think strong and silent means they’re getting things done and not burdening others with their internal stuff. We also assume people who process internally are…

37:13-40:42

Dr. Paul Conti: People who process internally are actually processing—they’re not just sitting there doing nothing. I used to joke, you know, “What’s my bulldog Costello thinking about?” And, honestly, I know it’s not true, but I used to think it was just noise, like maybe he was just sitting there, white-noising—experiencing the world as white noise. I have no idea what he was thinking. Could have been quantum physics. Probably not, but if it was, he was good at keeping a secret.

Exactly. Yeah, that image actually fits because he was a pretty stoic dog. He had this joyful expression, but there was something about someone who processes internally—they tend to get a lot done. Maybe they even serve others more than someone who processes externally. It’s tough to dig into this without tapping into natural gender stereotypes, but the stereotype is that women process externally more than men. I don’t know if that’s true—it could be men just process less overall, who knows? Half the time, I don’t even know what I’m thinking.

So, what do you think: people who keep things inside—do they come to a deeper understanding and accomplish more than those who process out loud? No, I don’t think so—not necessarily. What works best is a balance. And it’s going to be different for everyone. You need to have a mix of things that you know and understand inside yourself—things you feel certain about, that you’ve resolved. For example, a line not to cross because it’s a moral boundary. Like, I know how I feel about it, and I know where I stand.

There are parts of ourselves we want to feel really sure about—how we want to treat people, how we want to be treated—that kind of thing. It’s good to have those things solid inside us. But it’s also good to test them externally, to see how we’re interacting with the world. Too much internal processing can become overly self-referential, and I might start thinking that how I believe things should be is actually how they should be—without having checked with others. I might not have done enough testing to realize many people see things differently.

And this isn’t just about morals. Sometimes what I think is black-and-white might actually be more gray than I thought. So, there has to be a balance. This has always been the case for humans—a balance between what we discern internally and what we bring out and test in the world. The “vetted self” knows it doesn’t know everything and stays open to learning what others think.

Bringing an openness to the outside world is crucial. No one way of being is better than another—we all need balance. That balance includes knowing things about ourselves, feeling confident in some areas, but also having the humility to face the world with openness. Realizing that even when I think I know exactly how something is or how it should be, I have to pause and check with the outside world so I don’t get trapped in my own head, becoming self-referential, bigoted, or prejudiced.

Sometimes we just dip a toe into ignorance if we think we know more than we do. There’s so much more in the world than just our own opinions.

40:42-41:23

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41:22-42:26

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42:26-45:30

Andrew Huberman: Now, shifting toward some questions about physiology and how it all ties together, I want to peel back another layer on this idea of internal versus external processors. People often stereotype the “strong silent type”—and by that, I don’t just mean men, but that’s usually the default assumption—but I want to break that down a bit more.

I think back to my graduate advisor, Barbara Chapman, who was incredibly smart. Our department chair once described her perfectly by saying, “She’s quiet, but not shy.” She could sit in a room and just observe, paying close attention. When she chose to speak, it felt meaningful—high signal-to-noise—because she wasn’t someone who chattered for no reason.

There’s often this assumption that if someone talks a lot, then there must be a lot going on in their head all the time—though sometimes, it’s just noise, just getting stuff out. And if someone’s quiet, it’s either because they’re more regulated emotionally or that not much is happening internally. But my chair’s comment about my advisor really made me think: she was very quiet but definitely not shy. She spoke deliberately, well-organized, thoughtfully.

It wasn’t always a value I appreciated, to be honest—Barbara has since passed away—but there was always a sense that she was a true thinker, not just white noise in her mind. On the flip side, sometimes people who are very talkative actually have an anxiety component to that. Their words are coming out because of nervous energy, not necessarily because it’s all structured in there.

But I know plenty of people who are hyperverbal yet still very organized in their speech. So, what I’m trying to get at here is dismantling the simple notion of quiet versus verbal. Being introspective doesn’t necessarily mean being calm. There are so many assumptions here that just aren’t true.

This curiosity comes from the broader question that the tech entrepreneur Marc Andreessen once posed: how much time should we spend inside our own heads, and how does that serve us when we interact with the outside world? Conversely, if we’re just talking or acting all day, maybe that’s our way of processing, and that can be fine too. Maybe it means we can be peaceful when we go to bed because we’ve gotten it all out. That’s great for some people.

But the problem is assuming that what we see on the outside perfectly reflects what’s going on inside. We really have to be cautious not to map stereotypes or value judgments—like “quiet is good” or “talkative is bad”—onto these behaviors without understanding the full context.

45:31-47:20

Dr. Paul Conti: When we look at someone outside their context, it’s easy to misinterpret behaviors. For example, someone speaking less or being hyperverbal could mean anything depending on the person and the situation. Take Barbara Chapman in meetings—her judicious communication shows she’s careful about what she says. Sometimes people speak a lot to self-promote or to steer a conversation, but in that setting, less is more, and she’s communicating with intention. I don’t know if her mind was racing or calm, but her behavior was adaptive to the setting.

On the other hand, someone who talks a lot with constructive ideas and enthusiasm is different from a hyperverbal person who repeats themselves anxiously, maybe seeking validation. The context and who the person is make all the difference. We want to avoid assumptions and really understand the individual and their circumstances.

Humans naturally fit into patterns, but we’re all unique. You can’t know the pattern someone fits until you look closely at them.

47:20-48:23

Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): One thing I really love about your book are the probing questions you include—questions people can use to explore themselves. When I saw an advance copy, it felt like you not only get the theory and science as a clinician but you also provide practical ways for people to ask themselves, “What’s going right?” as a foundation to later explore what’s not going right. It’s a unique gift because so much of what’s out there focuses on “What’s wrong with me?” or “What’s wrong with the world?”

Starting from a place of curiosity about our strengths and asking the right questions turned out to be incredibly useful for me.

48:23-49:30

Dr. Paul Conti: Yeah, and so far, we’ve mostly talked about theory, but I want to ask a practical question: assuming no major pathology like crippling anxiety or depression, how much should people try to adjust their “autonomic set point”? By that, I mean some people are naturally very expressive with their hands or words, they like to move a lot, and if they don’t, they get anxious. Others are more still physically, and we tend to assume that if they’re still outside, they’re also more still inside, which isn’t necessarily bad.

There’s a lot of emphasis, including on this podcast, about learning to sit with stress and anxiety rather than just letting it out or blocking it off. I’ve personally benefited so much from tools like non-sleep deep rest and meditation, and I know many others have too. But sometimes I wonder—despite how valuable those things are, how much should we really be trying to...

49:32-53:37

Dr. Paul Conti: How much should we really be trying to control our emotional states? I often wonder if it’s healthy to think there’s something wrong with us just because we feel a certain way. Controlling our states to help us perform at our best is one thing, but it’s different from trying to change ourselves just for the sake of change.

For example, if you find a deep sense of peace—not sleep, but grounded peace—that helps you become a better version of yourself, that’s valuable. It gives you stability, makes you healthier, and helps you solve problems. In that case, you’re learning something new and doing something constructive because it benefits you.

But it’s another thing if someone thinks, “I need to be different, calmer, or more peaceful” just because they think that’s what they should be. Then they might be forcing an external idea on themselves that doesn’t really fit. Some people are naturally very active. They can sit quietly sometimes, but it’s not their nature. They might seem meditative even when they’re physically moving a lot because their inner state can still be calm.

It’s easy—and well-intentioned—to want to understand ourselves and others, to find patterns in behavior. But we have to be careful not to jump to conclusions by just observing someone in a certain state or how much they talk or don’t talk. We need to ask the right questions to really understand what’s going on. Now, the only way to truly know the answer is by deeply understanding the person’s context.

You mentioned earlier trying to create practical ways to approach ourselves in your book. That makes a lot of sense. Think of it like learning physics—you wouldn’t just tell someone to sit and think about physics without any guidance. You’d start with the basics, suggest books, and develop an approach.

It’s interesting that while we have guides for so many things, we often don’t have a clear guide on how to learn about ourselves—the most important subject of all. That’s why sitting with ourselves can feel so uncomfortable or anxiety-provoking. People say, “Okay, I’ll sit with myself,” but without help or a method, that can just lead to more anxiety.

So, if we have prompts or guiding questions to look inward, it makes it real. It helps us ask useful questions: How do I function? What works well for me? How do I see myself? How do others see me? Am I more introverted, extroverted, or a mix? Do I feel differently in different states? Does that work for me overall? Are there parts of my life where I feel uncomfortable?

Bringing curiosity into this process is key. We want to learn from patterns and all the knowledge available, but none of that means anything unless it’s directed toward understanding ourselves. Whether we’re reflecting alone, helping a friend, or working in therapy, everything we gather has to be viewed through the lens of that individual’s experience. Otherwise, we risk misleading ourselves.

If you’re open, I’m curious to throw out a kind of generic example of a clinical session. Imagine you know something about a patient’s family background, and there’s nothing obviously traumatic—maybe there’s...

53:38-57:34

Dr. Paul Conti: Sometimes, people come in and say, “I don’t really know. Work is okay, but this and that’s going on...” and they just sort of list out everything—like, “The news is really bothering me,” or “This person at work is annoying,” or “My life feels like a mess.” They might say something like, “I swear I’m not trying to get free therapy here, I’m just trying to make sense of it all.” It often sounds like they’re just reporting the news of their life—not really reflecting, just going through the motions.

What you want to do in those moments is encourage some reflection. Ask yourself, how much of what they’re describing are they actually *choosing*? Is it intentional, or just reflexive? For example, if someone talks about dating, are they really thinking about why they’re dating this person, or is it just something that’s happened without much thought? How much of life are they actively steering, and how much is just inertia?

If you get them to pause and consider, “What am I really choosing here? What’s working for me and what isn’t?” you’re nudging them toward an examined life. We see this a lot in intensive therapy work—with individuals and couples—where we move through this process really fast. By the second day, clients often want to revisit everything they said initially because they realize only about 10-20% of it really reflects what they value and want to keep. The rest—about 80%—is stuff they’re not sure about or that isn’t helping.

That’s the beauty of this reflective work—it sparks change. When we’re not looking closely at our lives, they tend to just happen to us, and we accumulate habits and relationships without much thought. We carry that baggage forward with no real organization or intention.

The key is that we *must* examine what we’re carrying, what we’re doing, and why. Without that, we just run on autopilot and end up living out patterns that don’t necessarily serve us.

57:36-58:22

Dr. Paul Conti: This idea that we must examine our lives is really at the core of everything. It’s how we maintain mental health, how we keep our sense of self intact, and how we keep our drives balanced. It puts us on a path where we’re ready to meet future challenges in the best health possible, and to take advantage of future opportunities. Just like we work to build good physical health, we need to build good mental health. That’s the best way to handle whatever curveballs life throws our way. It’s also the best way to live a good life—being proactive and on the front foot. But this requires us to honestly examine ourselves, with both a process and a structure, just like we do with physical health. Ultimately, that’s how we build overall good health.

58:22-59:10

Andrew Huberman: So what I’m hearing is, if we want more control or agency over any area in our life, we have to start by asking “why?” Why am I doing the things I’m doing right now? And why am I not doing other things that could serve me better? It starts with these questions of self. But I imagine that could be really frustrating. What do you do when someone tells you, “I know I should exercise, but I just don’t,” and when you press them and ask why, they say something like, “I don’t know. I’m just tired.” Or if you ask why they’re still hanging out with someone like Sharon, even though they always come back from those encounters feeling drained? How do you get past someone who basically says, “This is just life. I have a job, I have friends—that’s just how things are. What am I supposed to do, completely overhaul my life?”

59:10-1:00:00

Dr. Paul Conti: Yeah, it probably varies depending on where you live and who you are—how willing people are to sit with these thoughts and really spin them around, what I like to call “rotate the cube.” Just look at things from a new angle, see a different perspective. And maybe, as a practice, some people just shrug and say, “That’s fine, I’ll stick with what I know.” Like how people don’t really listen to albums anymore but might put one on backwards just to see if they catch something new. Maybe they don’t, maybe they do. People could say, “This is just how I do it.”

But how do we get someone to really start questioning this? I’m not asking you to play therapist for others, even though people naturally do that. I’m hoping this encourages folks to do it for themselves. Because if someone talks like the person you described—someone saying, “This is just what I do,” describing how every time they see Sharon they feel drained and exhausted—then what?

1:00:00-1:00:52

Andrew Huberman: Right, and then they move on to talk about their job, something that frustrates them all the time, and just keep pushing forward. Then I might say, “Look, you’re actually showing both of us where the X marks the spot. That’s where the treasure is. That’s where the real work needs to happen.” If you keep going out with someone that leaves you feeling lethargic, like your time was wasted and you feel hopeless afterward, you really have to ask why you keep doing that.

1:00:52-1:01:25

Dr. Paul Conti: Exactly. I would tie it back to something more meaningful. Like if someone told me a few sessions ago that they really want to find a good relationship or partner, and then they say they keep spending time with someone who clearly doesn’t make them feel good, well, that’s conflicting. You’re telling me these things don’t add up, so we should look at why you keep doing that. And it’s important not to be scared of that “why.” That’s where the fear usually sneaks in— “What’s wrong with me? Why would I do that?” Somewhere deep down that person knows it’s not working for them, but they keep doing it anyway.

1:01:28

Dr. Paul Conti: Sometimes people keep doing things that aren’t working for them because they’re afraid to really look at why. So if we approach it with a “no harm, no foul” mindset—just inviting them to think about why—they might realize that, say, Sharon is someone they really want to be liked by. Maybe they don’t actually like Sharon, but they feel they need her approval. Maybe they’re the kind of person who takes care of others more than themselves, and even if they don’t like Sharon, Sharon likes them, so they don’t want to end that relationship.

1:01:57

So they keep doing something that clearly isn’t getting them what they want. If they’re doing it over and over, it’s usually because they don’t feel empowered enough to understand themselves well enough to make changes. They haven’t yet aligned their behaviors and choices with what they truly want.

1:02:29

Once we help a person become curious about this and realize there’s something to learn from the “X,” the struggle—they discover value in digging into it. It might not be a massive discovery, but there’s always something there. That learning is where real-life change happens.

1:02:54

Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clarifying. It really brings us back to the idea of asking “why” to build agency—helping people potentially choose differently. It’s not always about stopping the behavior outright, but sometimes recognizing maybe they want a similar relationship but with someone else, or a completely different kind of relationship with the same person. It all starts with questions.

1:03:17

I’m going a bit backwards here, but going through inventories is a good first step to figure out which questions to ask next. The right questions deepen understanding and hopefully increase agency.

1:03:37

Interviewer: Once people say, “Yeah, maybe I do want a different kind of relationship with this person or activity,” do you typically give specific action steps? For example, do you tell them, “Between now and next session, go to the gym twice,” or suggest concrete activities like that?

1:04:14

Dr. Paul Conti: Sometimes, yes, but those kinds of directives work best when they come from a collaborative conversation. If we both agree on a goal and a plan, like, “Can you try to get to the gym once before next week so we can talk about it?” that’s often more effective.

1:04:31

Say the person wants to go five times but gets frustrated and ends up going zero because they set the bar too high. Then we might explore a kind of “measured” approach together. Maybe we say, “Alright, shall we aim for Monday and Friday? Twice a week is a good start.” Getting once under their belt first makes twice easier next week. It’s about removing mystery and setting achievable goals.

1:05:13

For changing a relationship, too, we’d get specific. Maybe someone wants a better relationship with Sharon but knows they need to talk about some issues—say, A, B, and C aren’t working. Then we’d explore together, “How might you approach that conversation?” Because the communication won’t just happen on its own.

1:05:26-1:07:26

Dr. Paul Conti: Communication won’t happen unless you bring it up. So, what’s keeping you from that? How might you approach her in a way that lets you really talk? What’s holding you back? We’re trying to problem solve here, but we have to do it with openness—knowing what we’re doing without any illusions or magic. We’re moving forward step by step. Change doesn’t happen instantly; it can’t happen as fast as we want it to, and if we expect that, we often get frustrated in two weeks. So, we have to set realistic expectations. Maybe it’ll take a couple of months to really make progress. Does that sound reasonable? Are we on the same page? Then each week after that, you just put one foot in front of the other and keep going.

It’s not easy. Maybe it’s tough to start that first conversation with Sharon or to drag yourself to the gym the very first time. But you can build yourself up so all your efforts are aligned and set yourself up for success. You don’t try to go to the gym right after a long night out—you set yourself up to win. Small wins empower us and give us courage to take bigger chances and get bigger wins.

If the foundation of your self—your structure and function—is strong, then what rests on that is empowerment. You also develop humility, which lets you accept that you’re human, that things aren’t perfect, and that you may have been making the same mistake over and over. And that’s okay. If you have the humility to accept that plus empowerment, you can face the world with agency and active gratitude.

For example, I’m grateful Sharon’s still here and I can talk to her. I’m grateful there’s a gym for me to go to, that I’m healthy enough to get myself there, and I have enough agency inside me to do the things I’ve decided to do. This is how we make life changes, big or small. And how do we get to big life change? It starts with small steps.

1:07:26-1:09:05

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1:09:05-1:09:23

Dr. Paul Conti: Okay, let’s get back to asking the right questions. There’s no doubt the families we were born into, and the people we grew up around, shape us tremendously. So, at what point does it make sense to start reflecting on the patterns you were exposed to, as a way to understand yourself better?

1:09:24-1:14:00

Dr. Paul Conti: We often talk about gaining more agency by asking better questions about why we do the things we do. Right now, there’s a big discussion going on about the balance between introspection and just taking action. Clearly, we need both. There’s also debate about how much time we should spend thinking about our past traumas. I won’t get into why this is especially relevant now, but the dilemma is basically this: Do you focus on your life as it’s happening right now and figure out why you behave a certain way so you can improve it? Or is there real value in identifying the patterns you learned—or were forced to participate in—as a child, as a way to gain more control?

For example, say someone had a very controlling parent. Without insight, they might become over-controlling themselves because they associate control with feeling powerful and less vulnerable. They might end up controlling their own children in the same way. We call this “pattern repetition” or “cycle of behavior,” and without insight, the person isn’t aware of why they’re repeating it.

On the flip side, if someone decides, “My parent was controlling, so I’m going to be completely easy-going,” without insight, they may swing too far and become too permissive—failing to exercise appropriate, healthy control, especially as a parent. So, either blindly copying or blindly rebelling against what they experienced isn’t ideal.

What insight does is let you see, “Okay, my parents were overly controlling, maybe even abusive. I don’t want to be like that. But I won’t rush all the way to the opposite extreme either.” Now, you get to find a healthy middle ground. You figure out how much control makes sense to keep your child safe while still allowing them the freedom to grow and make their own choices.

This kind of insight—understanding your past, the good, the bad, and everything in between—gives you the ability to be deliberate about how you parent or act in your life. You can consciously decide how to steer your life, instead of just reacting. It’s really powerful.

There’s something fundamentally valuable about this kind of insight where you realize, “I want to push away from this pattern, or I want to be more like this other way of being that would serve me better.” That might sound obvious, but it’s actually a crucial step for mental well-being and growth.

I imagine many people are stuck in behavior patterns they know aren’t working for them. They want to change but struggle to do so. The common thing I hear is, “I know I should change, I want to change—but I just don’t.” What I’m saying is that when you can understand that these patterns come from something you observed or experienced in your past, you can begin to work with that knowledge to actually make those changes happen.

1:13:41-1:17:45

Dr. Paul Conti: When we realize we’re either mimicking something we saw or doing the exact opposite, it suddenly gives us a sense of agency. What do you think that is? This is a different kind of question than what I’ve been asking so far. Before, I’d ask, “What is it?” because a clinician might say, “Hey, you really need to eat better and get to bed on time because the way you’re living isn’t helping you.” But then the person goes off and doesn’t change a thing. When you dig deeper and ask, “What’s that about?” they might trace it back to something from childhood—either following or fighting against an old pattern.

Now, you’re telling me that this awareness gives people a sense of agency. Like, “Aha, this comes from me.” But it’s not something I consciously programmed, right? So what is it that allows this insight? What’s the crack in the wall that lets people change their behavior just by realizing some or all of it’s inherited from a pattern?

When we see there’s a pattern—something either inside or outside of ourselves controlling us—it defuses that tension. Part of why this clarity gives us control is because none of us want to feel like we’re living on autopilot, like some kind of Manchurian Candidate triggered by a sound, just reacting automatically without choice. We don’t like that feeling.

So if I realize, “Oh, I’ve been programmed this way,” for example, if someone disagrees with me and it makes me feel bad, vulnerable, or insecure, that’s probably the way I felt as a kid. I’m just acting like the parent I had, not giving my inner child room to have an opinion. And I can’t tolerate that feeling, so it just runs on automatic from childhood. Maybe now I’m projecting that onto my own kid, trying to control them the way I was controlled—and I don’t want to do that.

Or maybe it’s the opposite—I wasn’t allowed to have a voice as a kid, so now I’m letting my children run wild in ways that might not be safe. I pushed hard against my past without realizing that I was still caught in those same dynamics.

This insight—that something inside us is triggered and we react automatically without thinking—is a powerful effect in human behavior. We really don’t like being controlled by those unconscious patterns.

Now, if we combine that realization with what I call compassionate curiosity—like if someone is starving and there’s food right outside the door but they’re not getting up to eat, it makes sense to ask, “Why not?” What’s so powerful inside that’s holding them back from something that should be easy?

If we get the person to be on their own side, instead of beating themselves up over, “I want to do A, B, and C but just can’t, or there’s no time,” they start asking themselves, “Wait, what’s really going on? Am I sure I want to do this? And if I do, what’s stopping me? How am I stopping myself?” Suddenly, they bring their energy and internal resources to the problem, and everything shifts.

This approach has helped not just me, but many people struggling with motivation or stuck in patterns that don’t serve them—whether those patterns are about doing something or avoiding it. It’s the most common question I get, the biggest theme. I think it’s probably why podcasts like this exist. People are naturally curious about the science, the circuits in the brain, hormones, and all that. But really, at the core, they want more control over their behavior. They want to feel like they have agency.

And I think what you said—

1:17:47-1:22:00

Dr. Paul Conti: What stands out to me is how much people hate being controlled. Back in the ’90s and early 2000s, we got kids to quit smoking—not by telling them what to do, but by showing rich old white men wringing their hands, laughing about how people got sick while they got rich. That’s what actually stopped teens from smoking. It wasn’t just that they didn’t like smoking—nicotine is incredibly addictive. It’s because teens said, “You’re not going to control me.” When you have an enemy, you feel a sense of agency; you’re standing on your own side.

So when you realize you’re being controlled—even if it’s just by your parents’ patterns or your upbringing, and you’re doing the opposite in ways that are actually hurting you—that’s a big moment. You can start to advocate for yourself. I see this reflected a lot in social media, where people are very clear: “You’re not going to control me.” We saw it during the pandemic, and it’s part of human nature.

We primates just don’t like to be controlled. That feeling of agency, that “I’m on my own side,” can actually grow from that resistance. We hate feeling like we’re being played or fooled. It makes us angry. But here’s the magic: there is no real enemy. Often, we’re the ones getting in our own way. And who’s most likely to block your attempts to be healthier or improve your life? It’s you.

But that doesn’t mean you’re your enemy. Maybe you want to be healthier, you want to go to the gym, but you find yourself not going. Why? Do you secretly hate yourself? Probably not. There’s usually a reason: you feel overwhelmed, like you have so many other things to do for other people, and that your own needs come last. Maybe you don’t feel you deserve the time or energy it takes. Or maybe you’re protecting yourself because previous attempts ended poorly and left you feeling worse. There’s fear — fear of failure, fear of not measuring up — and that’s why you stand in your own way.

It’s important to realize: you don’t have to do this. You have one “you,” and you can choose. If you want to go to the gym but aren’t going, it means there’s a part of you that wants to, and a part that doesn’t. You have to figure out why. Are you convinced you’re not worth the effort? Maybe you think other things are more urgent or important. Maybe you’re afraid that if you try, you’ll fail. Whatever the reason, it’s valid.

The key is to get on the same page with yourself. As I’ve said before, you can decide not to do something—like going to the gym—if you accept that right now you have other priorities, like taking care of a sick family member. The point is, be honest with yourself so you’re not torn in two directions.

1:21:48-1:22:49

Dr. Paul Conti: If someone else is sick and I’m taking care of them, that’s the choice I’m making. It’s a decision I own fully—so I’m saying, “Okay, I’m not going now,” and the whole of me agrees with that. But on the flip side, when this drain on my time and energy looks different, then I will go. The important thing is that the person I’m with is on the same page and not beating themselves up for wanting to go but not going. Or I might say, “I really want to go, but I know I’m standing in my own way because I’m afraid I’ll fail.” Maybe I get upset because the last eight times I tried, I failed. That’s where we’re really digging in—right to the heart of the matter. We recognize, “Okay, you’re protecting yourself. How do we set you up for success so that this time you’ll want to move forward because it really is different? And you won’t just keep repeating a pattern that leaves you feeling bad.” That’s how we align all our motivations. We realize there’s no enemy here; it’s just me standing in my own way. And that’s okay—I can honestly look at that and figure it out. When we get to that simple goodness principle, where we’re all aligned with ourselves, that’s when we achieve our goals.

1:22:49-1:24:30

Andrew Huberman: We wouldn’t wish trauma on anyone, but how do people with relatively healthy or trauma-free childhoods operate in the world? Are they moving toward things from a genuine place of curiosity, not resisting anything in a perfect or “idyllic” way? They’re not reacting to past experiences or just pushing off something from childhood. Is that the ultimate goal—to move toward things because we genuinely want to, without resistance or copying bad patterns from the past?

Dr. Paul Conti: Yes, that’s exactly what I associate with living intentionally. It’s about being as self-aware as we can—while realizing total self-awareness is impossible—and then choosing to live intentionally. Real trauma, the kind that overwhelms our coping skills and changes how our brain functions, does make this harder. That’s why we have to look at trauma if it exists in our lives and understand how it might have changed us. But having trauma doesn’t make it impossible. People with significant trauma can still pursue this path if they develop insight about how the trauma affects them, and maybe even realize it requires more work to fully process. On the other hand, someone without trauma might still struggle just as much—or more—because of other factors like circumstances or unrealistic expectations. Maybe they’re too ambitious with too little time and energy. For example, someone might try to go to the gym four or five times, it doesn’t work out, and then they start feeling down on themselves. It’s not because of trauma but because of a cycle they get caught in. Every time they think about being healthier, they tell themselves, “You’ll never be able to do it,” or “You messed it up three times already,” and that just makes it harder.

1:24:30-1:25:34

Andrew Huberman: How do you respond when someone says, “I get tired just thinking about it”? What’s a useful way to approach that?

Dr. Paul Conti: That’s a great question. It’s clear there’s a lot of brain space and energy being taken up just by thinking about it. For many people, the mental effort of thinking about trying to go to the gym—or do anything challenging—uses more energy than actually going and being there. Their brain is running through all the ways they’ve failed, how bad they’ll feel, how much they want to do it, then second-guessing if they can or can’t. There’s such a buildup inside their mind, making it way more complicated than it needs to be. So I want to understand why all that energy is tied up inside and whether there’s a way to simplify that. When someone is that mentally exhausted just from thinking about doing something, it’s a clear sign that something’s going on beneath the surface—and that’s what we want to get at.

1:25:36-1:26:10

Dr. Paul Conti: We often want to get to the root of things, but sometimes the way we think about them isn’t the healthiest. It can create a lot of internal turmoil over something that could actually be understood and simplified much more easily. That kind of overthinking? That’s like doing ten mental workouts—exhausting yourself without any real benefit. It drains your energy but doesn’t improve your mental or physical health. Imagine taking those ten mental workouts and turning them into one physical workout instead—you’d feel better both physically and mentally.

1:26:10-1:27:05

Dr. Paul Conti: I want to discuss a couple of common beliefs about the mind and psychology. I’m open to accepting they might be true, but I also think they’re at least partially false. For instance, the idea that however you talk to others is also how you talk to yourself. That sounds like nonsense to me. There are people who are really harsh to others but surprisingly calm inside. I had a former colleague—I won’t name him—who used to say, “I don’t get stressed; I give stress.” That always stuck with me. He seemed proud of that, but I wondered if deep down he was just as stressed as anyone else—or maybe he really was fine. So, can we say that how people treat others is how they treat themselves? No, not necessarily.

1:27:05-1:28:12

Dr. Paul Conti: Sometimes it might be true, but often not. You really have to look at the person and the situation. Usually, if there’s a big difference, it’s not the person who’s giving off all that stress who’s calm inside. That’s unhealthy and usually a sign of something deeper going on. More often, people treat others much better than they treat themselves. They might say to you, “Well, everyone makes mistakes,” but then internally, they’re beating themselves up. Good people tend to give others the benefit of the doubt but are harsh and unforgiving when it comes to themselves. The inner dialogue can be very different from how they interact with others.

1:28:12-1:29:08

Dr. Paul Conti: The saying goes, if you’re going to make yourself special, don’t do it in a negative way. It’s partly a joke, but the truth is most of us end up making ourselves “special” through negative self-talk. We might be forgiving to others for honest mistakes, but inside, we say things like, “What’s wrong with me? I’m an idiot. I messed up again.” There’s a lot of that harshness inside us. So, no, just because we’re kind to others doesn’t mean we’re kind to ourselves. And if we’re unkind to others, most of the time, there’s some real turmoil inside. It’s rare for someone to be unkind outwardly but feeling okay inside—when that happens, it’s a very different problem.

1:29:08-1:29:27

Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): In your book, you talk about intrusive thoughts and how people can manage them. If you don’t mind, could you share a few examples of what people can do to deal with intrusive thoughts?

1:29:27-1:29:41

Dr. Paul Conti: Sure. The first step is to recognize and identify the intrusive thought. Many people experience intrusive thoughts—something that may...

1:29:28-1:31:36

Dr. Paul Conti: Intrusive thoughts—these are things people might say to themselves hundreds of times a day without even realizing it. Until they actually stop and think, “Wait, what am I repeating over and over in my mind?” Becoming aware of that self-talk is the first step. For example, thoughts like, “I’m not safe,” or, “I’m going to get fired,” or, “There won’t be enough”—these can keep running through the mind unnoticed.

We have to be curious about what exactly we’re telling ourselves during those quiet moments, and what purpose those thoughts serve. If I keep telling myself, “Nothing’s going to be okay,” why am I doing that? Maybe I’m so scared of the reality that things won’t be okay that I’m mentally bracing myself. Or perhaps it’s tied to a past loss or hurt I haven’t processed yet, and these intrusive thoughts are an expression of that unresolved pain.

There’s always some meaning behind intrusive thoughts. So the goal is to recognize them and explore what they’re really about. From there, we can apply strategies like thought redirection—sometimes just deliberately shifting our thoughts gives us more control. Other times, understanding why we’re having these thoughts helps us release some of their emotional charge. For instance, if I’m worried that I’m unsafe or that things won’t work out, maybe I’m actually in an unsafe situation and need to make changes.

Sometimes, medication can also be helpful. But the key first step is awareness. And often, to really change these patterns, we need to understand why they exist—digging into the root causes rather than just covering up the symptoms. Instead of just polishing the surface, we have to look under the hood to see where the problem’s coming from.

1:31:38-1:33:31

Dr. Paul Conti: A commonly asked question is whether our dreams are informative, and if so, can they tell us anything about our waking thought patterns? For example, if someone tends to think in analogies or parallel ideas, will their dreams be easier to understand through that same lens? Honestly, I’m not sure about that.

In my clinical experience, dreams can hold a lot of meaning regardless of the type of thinker someone is. A very concrete thinker might have dreams that reveal important things because the unconscious mind has limited ways to express itself when the person thinks very literally in daily life. So dreams act as a necessary outlet for those hidden messages. On the other hand, people who are expressive and open tend to have dreams that are informative in a different way.

In the end, I think the most important factor is being curious about ourselves. When we’re curious, we tend to remember more about our dreams and internal experiences. This curiosity encourages us to reflect, write down what we recall, and think deeply about what our brain might be telling us while we sleep.

That said, sometimes dreams are meaningless or don’t have clear interpretations. We have to be careful not to over-interpret or force meaning onto them. Our minds are incredibly complex, and while it’s tempting to look for signs or markers in our dreams, we need to respect that complexity and approach dreams with a balance of curiosity and caution.

1:33:32-1:34:10

Dr. Paul Conti: I want people to see dreams as markers on their journey, indicators of where our thoughts are headed. We have to be careful and level-headed in how we approach them, but when we do, dreams can reveal remarkable insights. Sometimes, they communicate allegorically, reflecting events that have unfolded over years within a big family system. The brain captures these complex stories in simple, symbolic ways. So being curious about our dreams can give us deep insight, but we have to respect our own complexity and approach this carefully.

1:34:10-1:35:23

Dr. Paul Conti: Now, switching gears a bit—tap water is unfortunately often contaminated. According to a 2020 study by the Environmental Working Group, more than 200 million Americans are exposed to PFAS chemicals, known as “forever chemicals,” through their tap water. These chemicals are linked to serious health issues like hormone disruption, fertility problems, and gut microbiome disturbances. Over 122 million Americans drink tap water with high levels of cancer-causing chemicals. Because of this, I’m really glad to have Rora sponsoring this podcast. I’ve been using their countertop water filtration system for almost a year now. Rora removes harmful substances, including endocrine disruptors and disinfection byproducts, while keeping beneficial minerals like magnesium and calcium. It requires no plumbing or installation, is made from medical-grade stainless steel, and its sleek design fits beautifully on any countertop. Honestly, it’s a welcome addition to my kitchen—the water tastes great. If you’re interested, you can get an exclusive discount by going to rora.com/huberman.

1:35:23-1:37:46

Interviewer: In your previous book and discussions about trauma, you mentioned that anxiety, trauma, and stress don’t really recognize time—they erase it. The negative feelings can feel endless, which is why they’re so terrifying. So, you suggest that we segment time in our minds—seeing the past as “that was then” and the present as “this is now.” That’s a healthy way to keep the past from controlling the present or the future. But so many people feel daily anxiety and fear that’s so intense they can’t imagine feeling differently, even though logically they know it’s just a state. What tools do you offer to help people anchor themselves during those overwhelming moments? Should they just feel the emotions and let them pass? Or is it helpful to find something outside the experience to hold on to so they don’t get swept away?

Dr. Paul Conti: That’s a profound question—whether to feel your feelings fully or be cautious of feelings that rob you of your sense of time. Those feelings that make you lose track of time can be dangerous. It all starts with understanding and shining light on our truth. You can repeat to yourself, “that was then, this is now,” but your limbic system—the emotion center of the brain—doesn’t care about clocks or calendars. It lives entirely in emotional reality. So, even if our logical mind insists the past is over, the limbic system’s emotional experience doesn’t align with that. It’s like two different realities within us—the logical brain recognizes time has passed, but the emotional brain feels like the trauma or fear is happening right now. That’s why a current trigger can make the past feel like the present.

1:37:49-1:39:41

Dr. Paul Conti: We need to stay aware of the emotions swirling inside us, especially those intense emotional states we sometimes find ourselves in. They’re trying to tell us something important. You know, sometimes something minor happens during daily life, but it triggers us, pulls us deep into a feeling of fear or vulnerability. That feeling might connect back to a moment from years ago—maybe 20 years ago—that’s still unresolved. This shows us that time isn’t linear when it comes to emotions. Logic might see time as a straight line, but our emotional brain experiences it more like a string being pulled taut between past and present. What I feel right now can snap me back to something long ago.

That’s a sign there’s emotion from that past moment we haven’t dealt with fully. Am I aware of it, or am I pushing it beneath the surface? If strong emotions trap me in the past while I’m living in the present, that’s a marker—we often try to avoid facing that because we fear it means we’re not mentally healthy or might “go crazy,” which is really not the case. This is normal and human. Our emotional systems especially pay attention to negative feelings like fear, loss, despair—things that don’t recognize clocks or calendars. They bring past pain into our current experience, saying, “Dig here, this isn’t just in the past emotionally—it’s still part of your present.”

1:39:41-1:41:57

Dr. Paul Conti: So, the question becomes: what’s the best way to uncover and heal childhood traumas? For me, it starts with compassionate curiosity. We look at our past without taking sides—not feeling like we have to see it a certain way or minimize it to make ourselves okay. Sometimes people feel they have to downplay how bad it was, thinking they won’t survive fully facing that pain. Others feel compelled to focus on the worst parts, trying to make sense of why their current life isn’t what they want. But all that emotional charge makes it hard to look at things calmly and clearly.

You can’t be completely without emotion when thinking about hard things from the past, but you want to develop an observer’s stance—asking yourself, “What’s going on inside me? What do I feel about this? Am I trying to downplay it? Am I exaggerating it to explain my behavior now?” We observe our own motivations as we look back, and if we can do that with calm acceptance, we gain equanimity. That lets us say, “I don’t have to be afraid to explore this part of my childhood, whether it was difficult, neglectful, or even abusive. I can acknowledge that it was wrong, and now decide, what do I want to do with that knowledge?”

It doesn’t have to define us or dictate who we are. Looking at it with a clear, calm mind lets us see how it influenced us, and then we can begin to make progress. This ties back to what we started with—malleability, the idea we can change how we see ourselves and reshape ourselves. But first, we have to be willing to look at ourselves without bringing fear or criticism—just compassion. When we do that, we connect with what really happened in childhood and what meaning we’re giving it now. Then, maybe we’ll want to put those thoughts outside ourselves—write them down, speak them out loud, or talk with a trusted person.

1:42:00-1:42:22

Dr. Paul Conti: Sometimes when I’m dealing with a strong emotion, I might talk to a trusted friend or consider seeing a therapist. The idea is to take that intense emotion—something that can block our ability to understand—and work through it. If we approach our past with fear, we’ll always view it through that lens. But if I know I can look back without fear, even if it stirs up difficult feelings, then I can stay calm and learn more about myself.

1:42:24-1:42:32

Andrew Huberman: Do you think people reflect enough on the good things that have happened to them?

Dr. Paul Conti: No, not often enough.

1:42:32-1:42:53

Dr. Paul Conti: We tend to have a negativity bias. We rarely pause to say, “Hey, I did that well,” or, “That didn’t come out perfect, but I learned from it.” Or even, “I really gave it my best shot.” Instead, our stories about ourselves focus on the negative. Some people believe that if they acknowledge what’s going right, they’ll become complacent, or they don’t see the point and prefer to focus on what’s wrong. But really, it’s the opposite.

1:42:53-1:43:32

Dr. Paul Conti: When we focus on what’s gone well, on our successes, or at least on what we’ve learned from experiences—even the hard knocks—we empower ourselves. We build confidence. So, absolutely, we should do this more. It won’t make us complacent; instead, it helps us become happier, healthier, and more effective.

1:43:33-1:44:05

Dr. Paul Conti: When people look back, most of us automatically think about family, elementary school, high school, and so on. I have a colleague named Larry Squire, a leading expert on memory. When I visited him at UC San Diego years ago, I saw a bunch of photos on his office wall from various meetings and events. I figured since they were there, I could look at them.

1:44:05-1:44:40

Dr. Paul Conti: He told me that having photos of positive moments on your wall is really good for adult memory. These photos trigger emotional states. He studies explicit memory—the kind we’re aware of—and implicit memory, which happens unconsciously. Even if you don’t look at them every day, just having positive reminders nearby surrounds you with good memories on some level.

1:44:40-1:45:15

Dr. Paul Conti: That really stuck with me because Larry isn’t just some random person saying this—he’s one of the foremost experts on human memory in the last couple of centuries. I asked him if he looks at his photos a lot, and he said sometimes. More importantly, he described his space as a “vessel of awesome memories.” It doesn’t solve all his problems, but why wouldn’t you want that? I think that’s a really cool concept.

1:45:18-1:45:28

Dr. Paul Conti: These days, we spend so much time looking at other people’s experiences and the news. I wonder if that means we’re doing less of this—focusing on our own positive memories. As a final thought, I’ve always liked when you walk into someone’s home and see a stairwell or hallway filled with photos.

1:45:28-1:45:44

Dr. Paul Conti: They’re not always big family photos, sometimes yes, sometimes no, but they represent moments that meant something to that person. It’s like they’re remembering and celebrating their own story in a very tangible way. It’s a simple thing, but it creates a positive emotional atmosphere.

1:45:45-1:48:52

Dr. Paul Conti: You know, I see people posting all their experiences online, and honestly, I think it’s kind of cool, even though I don’t tend to do it myself. But this is a way of reflecting on the past in a positive light—kind of basking in it. Maybe we all should do more of that. Absolutely. What he’s talking about—and what you’re bringing up—is being able to control the “climate” inside ourselves, the structure of the self, which is deeply rooted in the unconscious mind.

That unconscious mind sets the parameters for how we live. It’s like the climate we’re living in internally. And if that climate is programmed to be negative—if it’s biased toward negativity—because we spend so much time thinking about what we did wrong, what we should have done differently, or what might go wrong next, then we’re training our unconscious to surface those negative answers. We ask ourselves, “Can I do that?” and the unconscious says, “No.” We don’t always understand why—we just feel it.

But that “no” comes from the climate inside us, from our unconscious mind. So, he’s saying you can pre-program a positive bias into yourself. It’s not false or Pollyanna-ish. Those photos on his wall are real memories, and whether he’s consciously looking at them or just passing by, there’s a subconscious recognition that primes the unconscious to see the positive side of things. If he thinks, “Can I do that? Yes, I can,” it changes his internal landscape and he gains control over his own climate.

We can do this too. Too often, though, we inadvertently create a climate of fear, a lack of confidence inside ourselves because we’re always fixated on the negative—whether it’s about ourselves or the world around us. That’s why the book’s title, *What’s Going Right?* is so fitting—because there’s way more going right in all of us than going wrong; otherwise, we wouldn’t even be here. So why not prime ourselves that way, like he did with those photos?

It absolutely makes sense, and it’s aligned with reality, not just optimism for optimism’s sake. It actually helps you be effective in the world, improves your mental health, which in turn benefits your physical health. Everything about this aligns with truth and puts us in better control of our lives, helping us approach life proactively.

I’m actually going to start printing out some photos and putting them up because I realize I don’t do enough of that—despite having photos, all the online stuff kind of overshadows it. This Larry Squire idea we talked about really hit home for me. I’m definitely going to do that more.

Andrew Huberman: Yeah, me too. It’s a great reminder. Our physical surroundings impact us so much, and having these positive reminders around us definitely helps. We’ve all got good memories—and some tough ones too—but I’m going to focus on putting up the good ones because it just makes so much sense.

Dr. Paul Conti: Totally. Earlier we talked about the sense of internal control, the feeling that you’re on your own side when you’re pushing against something. And I’ve got to ask—you know I’m fascinated by scripture, spirituality, and the ideas of God and the devil. Not telling anyone what to believe here, but many people are taught there are evil forces out there, or maybe even inside of us, and also positive forces inside and around us. Usually, for the sake of conversation, those get framed as God and the devil.

Do you think it actually helps people make better choices if they believe there’s a devil out there, or inside of them, to push back against? That belief can make them feel more on their own side, like an internal force that’s better than the “bad decision-maker” part inside them. What’s your take on that?

1:49:50-1:52:53

Dr. Paul Conti: Sometimes we think of ourselves as bad decision-makers, right? The way I’m explaining it might sound a bit complicated, but I can’t think of a simpler way to get the point across. If this idea holds true, it might sound brilliant—though whether it’s actually true is up to each person to decide for themselves. But if the best way to change your behavior is to be on your own side—and the best way to do that is to not be controlled by some other force and actively resist it—then this idea of a good force and an evil force inside us feels pretty rational from a psychological standpoint.

That said, it’s not as black and white as some might think. If we get too reductionist—like there’s just one force of good and one force of evil—I think that misses the complexity of the world and ourselves. Most religious traditions reflect that the world is more complicated: there isn’t just one pure good or pure evil force. We tend to over-identify with the good side, wanting to be good, but then when we mess up, we feel bad, like we’re evil for not being good enough. Or we feel the evil forces are specifically targeting us. We often personify good and evil, seeing ourselves as either trying to be good but failing, or as under attack by evil.

That leads to either self-persecution when we over-identify with being good, or feeling besieged if we believe evil forces are coming after us. That kind of simplification can push us toward misunderstanding ourselves. If we think more broadly—which I believe aligns with spirituality—we recognize that there are forces encouraging good and forces pushing away from good, both outside and inside ourselves.

For example, it’s not that most people would actively step on someone when they’re down, but maybe sometimes they ignore those in need. That’s not pure evil—just a more subtle, gray area. When we see those nuances, we’re understanding ourselves and the world more realistically and in line with major spiritual traditions and increasingly with scientific insights.

This view helps us feel part of something bigger, with forces pushing construction and good as well as forces pushing destruction and evil. We know where we want to be on that spectrum—we want to be generative, to make things better than we found them, including improving ourselves. Recognizing this complexity is truer to our actual experience, rather than seeing everything as a polarized battle between one good and one evil.

1:52:53-1:54:10

Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): Is it a reasonable goal to want to be happy-go-lucky? Like, can I aim for that and still be productive?

Dr. Paul Conti: Unfortunately, no. Being happy-go-lucky suggests a lack of awareness about the difficulties and challenges in life, and in our own lives. It implies turning a blind eye to those realities, which isn’t very realistic. And you know what? I think it’s good that it’s not possible. Who wants to lose touch with the real aspects of life, even if they make you less carefree?

But that doesn’t mean you can’t be happy. I absolutely believe you can be happy. Studies back this up, and throughout literature and philosophy, when we talk about happiness, what we’re really aiming for is peace, contentment, and the ability to find delight. We want to be able to just be—without so much noise or pressure internally or externally coming at us.

1:54:12-1:58:18

Dr. Paul Conti: There’s so much going on inside us and around us, right? We all say we just want a little bit of peace. I mean, sometimes I just want to walk around and look up at the trees and appreciate how beautiful they are. For me, that’s peace. And I believe we can all find our way to peace. It doesn’t have to be every moment, and it doesn’t even have to be constant for us to be happy.

We need some peace, some contentment, and contentment means being aware of all parts of our lives—the good and the bad. I can hold in my mind awareness of tragedies I’ve been through or things I haven’t done the way I’d ideally want, and still feel good about the overall arc of my life. There’s a thought in early humanism, like Nietzsche’s, about embracing the fate we’ve created for ourselves. Can we accept our life as it is and want to live it again, even knowing there are tragic or difficult parts? I think the answer is yes. We can find peace, contentment, and even delight.

We all had delight as children, and if we don’t have it now as adults, there’s something we can do about that. Everyone needs something that makes them light up. For you, for me, and for everyone, it might look different, but I think we can weave peace, contentment, and delight into our lives.

Is it true that the things that bring us delight make us feel joyful, even if only for a moment? I’m hearing that these moments happen against a backdrop of challenges and striving. The goal isn’t total peace and ease—that’s not really possible. Life naturally brings difficulties, risks, dangers, and vulnerabilities for everyone. So thinking we need to erase all that from our minds to feel good or happy just sets us up to be unhappy with being human.

Sometimes people say, “I just want to worry about nothing,” or “I don’t want anything weighing on me,” and that sounds like wanting to be numb or even dead. That’s not really what we want, even if we do want moments where we’re at peace and not ruminating on bad things—just looking at a tree, a bird, or a log floating down the river. I had one of those peaceful moments not long ago.

But to find real happiness, we have to be able to hold awareness of the harder parts of life too—to accept that some things aren’t the way we want, even tragic things—and still feel good about our lives. True happiness isn’t about escapes. Sometimes people look for that happy-go-lucky feeling as an escape, even through substances. Sure, it might feel good for a couple of hours, but at what cost? What we actually want is the ability to understand our lives fully, to feel in control enough that we’re not afraid of the future.

We can acknowledge there will be scary and difficult things ahead, but face them as best we can without fear. When we feel good about our lives and feel like we’re in control with enough understanding, we can say, “I’m okay right now.” Then that moment turns into the next, and we keep moving forward, doing the best we can because this sequence of moments is the only time we’re alive—and we want to be fully present for it.

There used to be many articles—some still online—about the regrets people had near the end...

1:58:20-2:02:21

Dr. Paul Conti: I’ve read about the regrets people have near the end of their lives, and you know, no one ever says they wish they’d spent more time at the office. Now, sure, some people really love their work, but did they love it so much that it hurt their family? Sometimes yes, but often no. I’m not a fan of those regret lists—they serve better as prompts to ask ourselves if we’re over-invested in one area at the expense of others. I’m guessing you’ve spent time with people nearing the end of their lives? Interviewer (Andrew Huberman): Yes. Have you ever met someone who really nailed it—someone who didn’t just tell a story but genuinely felt proud and content with how they spent their mental energy and life? Dr. Paul Conti: Yes, though those people are rare. Usually, you hear the typical stories about what not to do, but it’s uncommon to hear about those who really hit the mark. Interviewer: Any insights from those conversations? Or maybe just feelings that came up when talking with people who you really believed were living well—even if not perfectly? Dr. Paul Conti: That reminds me of a family member, much older than me—he’d be about 120 now if he were still alive. He was a self-made man, with little formal education, who started a bank that eventually went international. He was a pillar of his community and had faced real tragedies, including losing a child. When I was heading to medical school many years ago, he invited me over. He must have been in his early 90s at the time. He told me he was happy with his life, acknowledged that he could die at any moment, and accepted that. He said he did his best and had made something of himself. Of course, he had sadness and regrets, things he wished could have been different, but overall, he was at peace with his life and with dying. He wanted me to know that feeling was important, and warned about the danger of putting too much pressure on yourself to achieve everything yet never feeling good about it. That has stuck with me—I think about it often. That was early modeling for me about what living a good life looks like. He wasn’t perfect, but he had peace and contentment. He could still find joy, things that excited him, and his face would light up. I’d like to feel that way when I’m in my 90s—to be able to say that I’m okay with my life. Interviewer: That’s awesome. Dr. Paul Conti: I think we need to focus way more on what’s going right, on what went right. Interviewer: Yes, we were actually talking about that today—what’s going right in my life, what I’ve made go right, what hasn’t gone right but I showed up anyway. That’s part of what’s going right. Dr. Paul Conti: Absolutely. We so easily default to focusing on losses and what’s wrong, which sometimes can be a beautiful experience, but mostly, we get stuck there. Interviewer: But I’m hearing you say that just being happy-go-lucky and only focusing on what’s going right isn’t the full answer either? Dr. Paul Conti: Exactly, it’s not about being blindly optimistic. There has to be contrast. What I’m hearing from you today is that we have to live an examined life to live intentionally. Interviewer: Yes. We have to look at ourselves honestly, right? Dr. Paul Conti: Right. It’s about balance.

2:02:22-2:03:10

Dr. Paul Conti: We do have to look at ourselves, but the good news is that’s okay. Most of us don’t want to be dragged kicking and screaming into self-reflection, but that’s just because we’re afraid. If we realize we’re not going to find anything that shocks us, or at least nothing we aren’t already aware of—even if we’ve been trying to hide it from ourselves—then the process becomes different. If I look at myself, I can use that knowledge to make things better. That’s the simple truth: it’s okay to look at ourselves, we have to, but also, we get to. That’s how we live good lives, how we live the best lives we can. Maybe we even get to the point where we look back and feel good about the choices we’ve made, and maybe feel okay with the ones that didn’t lead where we wanted. We can still embrace ourselves and the lives we’ve led.

2:03:10-2:04:30

Interviewer: If you don’t mind, I want to ask a couple of questions that are a bit different from what we’ve been exploring. Was writing the book informative for you about the mind, about people, in a way that your clinical work or podcasts hadn’t been? Did it teach you anything new? And if so, would you be willing to share one or two of those insights?

Dr. Paul Conti: Sure. I think writing about what we know helps us understand it better. Part of truly knowing something is realizing you don’t know everything about it. So as we organize our thoughts, trying our best to communicate clearly to others, we inevitably learn from that process. Writing the book and weaving in clinical examples and life events helped me develop a fuller perspective. It really made me reflect on how we humans function in the world and how our minds are structured. There’s a parallel with the body—it’s all interconnected. I felt hopeful and optimistic because it all kind of holds together and points somewhere meaningful. So yes, I definitely learned a lot from organizing my thoughts through writing.

2:04:30-2:05:05

Interviewer: Last question, totally off-topic from everything else we’ve talked about—has Lex Fridman texted you back? He hasn’t gotten back to me in a while.

Dr. Paul Conti: No, I haven’t heard from Lex either. Despite multiple attempts, no response. There are rumors—he’s in Dagestan, or maybe Austin. Lex, we love you, you don’t have to text back, but maybe just throw us a sign that you’re okay. Otherwise, we might have to send a search party to Dagestan. And if you’re not there, then we’re really in trouble.

2:05:06-2:06:24

Interviewer: Dr. Paul Conti, this was amazing. I won’t repeat everything I’ve said, but I have to say what I love so much about talking with you is how exploring these deep, sometimes hidden parts of ourselves reveals these little gems—like the idea that we can be on our own side by recognizing what we don’t want controlling us. I think that’ll really resonate because behavioral change is one of the hardest things to do. And when people realize they’re not changing, that’s a double whammy. That insight alone is huge.

Dr. Paul Conti: Right.

Interviewer: And the focus on “what’s going right”—I’m not just repeating the book’s title, but it’s so vital, especially now. When you turn on the news, it’s all so challenging, and while many of those things deserve attention, focusing on what’s going right, what has gone right, is essential. What I’ve learned from you today is that focusing on what’s going right is really the lifeblood of being a joyous human being—with the caveat that we also have to deal with the challenges and traumas when they’re there. There’s really no other way. That’s the key takeaway for me.

2:06:26-2:07:07

Andrew Huberman: That’s what I’m taking away from this—yes, we can do that. And instead of thinking we maybe can do it or have to do it, we get to do it. There should be an excitement about that, an enthusiasm and hopefulness that we bring to the process.

2:07:07-2:07:18

Andrew Huberman: Well, thank you for being here today. Thank you for writing the book. It’s going to help so many people. And thank you for taking your clinical training and experience and putting it out into the world. You know, you don’t have to do that. Most of what happens in those sessions doesn’t serve the larger world the way your sharing does. So thank you. You’re clearly one of the leading public educators on the mind, the self, and navigating life. Thank you so much for being here today and please come back again.

2:07:18-2:07:25

Dr. Paul Conti: You’re very welcome. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do so. It’s my pleasure.

2:07:25-2:07:34

Andrew Huberman: Thanks for joining me for today’s discussion with Dr. Paul Conti. To learn more about his work and find links to his new book, *What’s Going Right*, check the show notes.

2:07:34-2:07:45

Andrew Huberman: If you’re learning from or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel—that’s a great no-cost way to support us. Also, please follow us by clicking the follow button on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and leave a review if you can. You can now leave comments on both platforms as well.

2:07:45-2:07:57

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2:07:57-2:08:14

Andrew Huberman: For those who haven’t heard, I have a new book coming out—my very first—called *Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body*. I’ve been working on it for over five years, based on more than 30 years of research and experience. It covers protocols for everything from sleep, exercise, and stress control, to focus and motivation, all backed by scientific evidence.

2:08:14-2:08:42

Andrew Huberman: The book is now available for pre-order at protocolsbook.com, where you can pick your preferred vendor. Again, that’s *Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body*. And if you’re not already following me on social media, you can find me at Huberman Lab on Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn. On all these platforms, I discuss science and science-related tools, some of which overlap with the podcast but much of which is unique.

2:08:42-2:09:02

Andrew Huberman: If you haven’t subscribed yet, the Neural Network Newsletter is free and sent monthly. It includes podcast summaries plus “protocols”—one to three-page PDFs covering topics like optimizing sleep, boosting dopamine, cold exposure, and foundational fitness protocols for cardio and resistance training. It’s all zero cost.

2:09:02-2:09:45

Andrew Huberman: To subscribe, go to hubermanlab.com, click the menu in the top right corner, scroll down to newsletter, and enter your email. Rest assured, we don’t share your email with anyone. Thank you again for joining me today for this discussion with Dr. Paul Conti, and last but not least, thank you for your interest in science. [music]

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